Member of the Socialist Party (PS), Maria Antónia Almeida Santos is currently defending the regulation of Medicinal Cannabis in Parliament, supporting the bills of the Left Bloc (BE) and People-Animals-Nature (PAN).
In addition to representing the position of the PS in the Plenary of 11 January, in the Assembly of the Republic (AR), the deputy currently composes the Working Group – Use of Cannabis for Medicinal Purposes of the Health Commission, which is in the final phase of discussing the bills in the specialty. Until the beginning of May, the revised projects should go up again to the Plenary to be voted on, but the deputy confirmed that there is still no date set.
It was next to a painting by Bordallo Pinheiro, in Passos Perdidos da AR, that we met with Maria Antónia Almeida Santos, to talk more about her vision of the legalization of cannabis for medicinal purposes.
The subject that brought us together here in Parliament was Medicinal Cannabis. Did any personal interest in this area or did this topic within the Socialist Party appear to you by chance among so many others?
I have no personal interest, but the issue has to do with people's health that improves when they consume cannabis derivatives and I think whenever cannabis derivatives are beneficial to the health of patients they are welcome. Therefore, the Socialist Party is in this matter of supporting the Bloc project. There has, in fact, been a long way in my party for a few years now, but no legislative measure had ever come up. Since it appeared, we have been working hard to pass it or to try to pass it in the Assembly.
Within the PS, is this view consensual?
I would say it is consensual, it is majority. There will always be dissenting voices, especially from people who still have some fears, because there is no doubt that this substance, over the years, has been involved in a stigma where the benefits were never known very well, but the harms were better known. We all know, for example, that cannabis is not harmless, but nobody, or almost nobody, until recently, knew that there is no toxicity in the substance. This is why there are no known deaths linked to cannabis directly. Scientific evidence for the health benefits of the substance cannabis has never been widely known, precisely because there has always been so much stigma. I repeat, it is not an innocuous substance, but it does bring benefits for many pathologies, which I will not enumerate here, but which are immense. First of all, to alleviate pain, for oncological diseases, until recently we have heard from several oncologists, for neurological diseases, for children who even have a very severe form of epilepsy. So, there is indeed scientific evidence that makes us think that we should put the stigmas aside, with some control, of course, because we already have it at home and we deal with such dangerous substances as alcohol, benzodiazepines or tranquilizers. These are really dangerous substances. We are now raising, excuse the term, ghosts in relation to cannabis, but I sincerely think that we should guide our action as legislators in an open position, with caution, of course, but that the Portuguese can have access to the substance.
And what remains to be done for patients to have access to medical cannabis? Are you aware of the difficulties of access by patients?
Have. In fact, the medicine that is on sale, or what you can find, costs 500 euros, so it is very difficult to find people who have access to it. The rest you can find, in fact, is not legal: you don't know what you're consuming, you don't know what you're buying, so in terms of safety and effectiveness, what if you buy it, nobody knows and we live in a situation that is dangerous. When we legalize the consumption of the substance cannabis for therapeutic purposes, I think that people, when consuming, when buying, when accessing, would know what they were buying and consuming. Now nobody knows, at this moment it is always a very dangerous and unsafe situation for all those who have in fact expressed those insecurities and even lack of confidence in the substance itself. I think that, and I stand by and reiterate what I said at the beginning, cannabis is a substance wrapped in many stigmas and, contrary to what many people know, it has been used for therapeutic purposes for over 90 years and there are already several countries that joined to prescribe cannabis. I think that the fears that exist in Portugal must be removed, because we have immense positive results and there is nothing to fear. The situation to fear is the current one.
So what remains to be done to resolve this situation?
First we have to pass this legislation, for now. Then there must be the possibility of treating the substance and making it accessible to the Portuguese. Several ideas have already been suggested: either through the military laboratory, or through a department of INFARMED, and then the sale in pharmacies. The pharmacies said they were able to sell the plant itself, in whatever form. Derivatives, because it is not always consumed in the same way (there are the oils, there is the vaporization, there is the flower), but I think that the part of elaborating the substance, whether it is inhaled, in oil or in pills, this will not have any problem, so we can all agree. I think this is a preliminary phase, it is a phase that still has a lot of prejudices around it and, honestly, because, as you know, this substance was in the past very linked, and still is in some way, to drug trafficking. Well, and we're not talking about a narcotic substance like other more complicated ones like heroin, etc., so we also need to know what kind of substance we're talking about. That's why I think that the information, the Portuguese being able to access cannabis derivatives in any way as long as they are beneficial to their health and that they have a control, honestly I think they are all welcome. So I stand by my position, which is this.
What is the state of play now in the Assembly of the Republic? What is being done and what is expected to happen when the projects go to plenary?
The feeling I have, at this moment, at this stage of the legislative process, is that if the proposing parties remove the self-cultivation part of the project, it will be a more consensual matter. I think that we will be able to pass a replacement text that will, in a way, legalize the use of cannabis for medical purposes. If you don't remove the issue of self-consumption... of self-cultivation, even because consumption has already been decriminalized...
Decriminalized…
Yes, decriminalized and decriminalized, and there may still be fines with possession, etc. Penalties when this is reiterated and when there is a presumption of traffic. If it is shown that it is for own consumption, even that is never penalized. Well, therefore, what I feel, this is a personal opinion, for what it's worth, but from what I've seen from this legislative process is that the point of contention is, in fact, self-cultivation. Apart from self-cultivation, I think that at the moment we are moving towards a consensus. The doubts began to dissipate and therefore I sincerely believe that we will be able to approve the Bloc and PAN projects. If self-cultivation continues, I don't think we will succeed, but I also know that the proposing parties, which the Left Bloc has already announced that it is willing to do without this issue, provided that, in fact, it can be ensured that the Portuguese have access, because the problem of self-cultivation had to do with access, it had nothing to do with anything else. And therefore, if there is a guarantee that the Portuguese have access to the substance in the way that it is prescribed and that is more favorable for their disease and symptoms, I think that the Left Bloc removes the part of self-cultivation and that we can have an approval. This is my opinion, obviously it's for what it's worth, because we haven't reached the end yet, but I hope we can see an initiative like this approved.
There have already been 14 countries in Europe, there have been more than 30 worldwide, not counting the States of the USA. Don't you think Portugal is a little late?
Look, you're talking to a person who advocated this a long time ago, so I think we're way behind schedule, honestly. I think we could have avoided terrible situations for children, young people, the sick, many situations that, if there had been legalization for medicinal purposes, would have been easier and we would have avoided the suffering of many people. Even embarrassing situations, of a certain duplicity between doing a lawful act or an illicit act, in which to treat a child there were people who had to go through very complicated situations. Therefore, all of this would have been avoidable if we had had the ability to anticipate and not be fearful. I think that sometimes the Portuguese have great ideas, but then they lack that final impetus to have the courage to break a little with situations that often stem from stigmas, prejudices, which society is internalizing and which is a shame.
What would you think of the ideal situation in medical cannabis? Access to cultivation in Portugal.
I think that with controlled cultivation we can move towards this hypothesis. If we don't go for self-cultivation, we go for distribution and access to street pharmacies, where they can guarantee everyone, obviously with a prescription, access to any form of cannabis and its derivatives. For me that would be ideal, that it be distributed through pharmacies, which are always open access doors and that do not make access difficult, because it would always be in quantities that are studied, calculated and in which we knew what we were buying. As for production, Portugal already produces, as we all know, right? Unfortunately this production goes outside of Portugal, isn't it? Basically, Portugal has all the conditions to produce cannabis, but the product of this plantation goes all out of the country. So, we have conditions, we also have the means for distribution, we also have the Military Laboratory that has the capacity, the pharmacies themselves said they had availability, INFARMED was even willing to create a department, since the drug circuit is a little different because it is the plant itself, but it also says yes and that it has capacity. So what are we missing? I don't see anything that could prevent this from becoming a reality in Portugal. Let's see, there is a lack of political will and each deputy gets one vote. But I am sincerely hopeful that, removing the self-cultivation part, we can reach a consensus and a majority to get this legislation passed.
The point of self-cultivation is that, in fact, there are already people cultivating and it would be good to also regulate these situations that already exist.
And the courts are full of cases, you are absolutely right, I agree with you, many people have had problems. So, as long as it was obviously supervised — and we supervise so much, there are so many inspections, as long as it was supervised, what would be the problem? One more fear that I don't think will reap. But that's it, if in fact most people are still not convinced, let's go step by step. You know that one way to legislate, sometimes, is to take smaller but sure steps. If Portuguese society — and we are here to reflect a little on what Portuguese society thinks — if Portuguese society has not yet developed this idea, we will take one step and then another. Because I also tell you, I think that we will quickly come to the conclusion that there was nothing to fear, but that this fear will not serve to wait I don't know how many years without the ability of the Portuguese to access cannabis for medicinal and therapeutic purposes.
Tilray sells all types of cannabis products, including flowers. I think it would not be difficult for our pharmacies to sell these products.
We have already heard pharmacists say that pharmacies, although most of them have stopped producing compounded medicines, have the installed capacity to sell these derivatives and these forms of cannabis, because they have refrigerators and means to avoid contamination, etc. If they already produce and distribute to other countries, they can also produce and distribute in Portugal, right? Okay, I think I'll honestly end up going back to the beginning. Unfortunately, this is involved in many stigmas, and since it is not an innocuous substance, there are obviously cases where it can potentiate some disturbance in which a specific person already has some predisposition, but even those, what cannot potentiate? I mean, we're not asking everyone, of all ages, at all times, if they have a headache they're going to use cannabis! This is not what is being asked, what is being asked is with rules, with caution, and that is why I think that the fears that have been expressed are excessive, honestly.
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